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Author Rick Layman Rob Holden: Rick Layman, welcome to ReadersRoom.com. It is a pleasure to have you with us here today! RICK LAYMAN: It's a pleasure to be here. Rob Holden: I'd like to start this out by asking you to tell us a bit about yourself, and why our mystery fans will be thrilled to read this chat! RICK LAYMAN: I have been working on Dashiell Hammett for over 30 years. I was trained in graduate school as a bibliographer, and my first book after I got my degree was a descriptive bibliography of Hammett. I discovered during that project that a bibliography provides the building blocks for a biography, so I did that next. My Shadow Man, published in 1981 was the first full-length biography of Hammett. Since then there have been three others. In 1999, I finally made personal contact with the Hammett family and a couple of years later I was asked to serve with Evan Marshall, Hammett grandson as trustee for the Dashiell Hammett Literary Trust. The occasion for the current wave of Hammett interest is the 75th anniversary of publication of The Maltese Falcon. Rob Holden: Can you tell our readers what first got you interested in Hammett? RICK LAYMAN: I became interested in Hammett as a student of American literature, not as a mystery fan. The scholarly interest came first and it blossomed into a fuller appreciation. Rob Holden: Let's talk about Hammett's contribution to American Literature for a second. While not strictly the originator of the "hard boiled" detective genre, he was, perhaps, the first writer to actually define it. Can you tell us how he came to chose that genre?

RICK LAYMAN: Hammett was drawn to the genre by necessity. He was too sick to work as a detective, and he had a wife and daughter to support. Writing was a profession he could pursue that did not require physical exertion. He dropped out of school in his sophomore year of high school, but he was extraordinary intelligent. He educated himself--well. He began writing by trying to break into the more sophisticated magazines, but the ready money was in the pulps. He made about enough in the early-mid 1920s to pay his rent. But he wasn't satisfied writing formula fiction. He wanted to write and to be recognized for having written fiction with literary value.

Rob Holden: One of the things I found fascinating while doing the research for this chat was the fact that, considering the influence he has had, he wrote comparatively few novels -- and his career as a novelist was fairly short. Can you cast some light on why this might have been?

RICK LAYMAN: I think the answer to that question is an extension of my last answer. He wanted to write and be recognized for having written fiction with literary value. Beginning with The Maltese Falcon, he set his standards very high. His success as a writer brought him money and fame that had a devastating effect on him personally. He drank and socialized intemperately. Throughout his life--even into the 1950s when he got out of jail broke and was physically broken -- he was still trying to write his sixth novel, but he couldn't meet his own standards. Jo Hammett, his daughter, said he didn't quit writing; he quit publishing.

Rob Holden: There has been some speculation that Hammett's relationship with Lillian Hellman had something to do with his stopping publishing, but your answer would indicate that this was not the case?

RICK LAYMAN: I don't think so; in fact, I think Hammett vicariously enjoyed Hellman's success. He was interested in play writing before he met her, and he gave her the idea for her first play, The Children's Hour, which he coached her through with some care, helping to rewrite scenes and offering valuable critical advice. He took an active interest in most of her plays, and wrote key speeches in them. He was involved in the production, often reviewing rehearsals and out-of-town tryouts. It is hard to find a lot good to say about Hellman, sometimes, but one must give her her due. She was loyal to him even after his death. She is largely responsible for reviving Hammett's literary reputation after the McCarthy era. She wasn't so nice to his family, though.

Rob Holden: Let's talk a bit about Hammett's best known work -- The Maltese Falcon. I ran across a review from 1931 which stated something along the lines of the reviewer's never having seen or read anything quite like it. Can you tell us how Hammett came to write it?

RICK LAYMAN: There are two answers. The straight forward one is that in November 1926 a new editor came to Black Mask named Joseph Shaw. At that time Hammett was estranged from Black Mask, having fought with the editors. Shaw invited him back to the magazine and encouraged him to write longer pieces of fiction. Shaw realized that it is hard to make a literary reputation on short stories. Hammett responded with long stories that tended to be linked--The Big Knockover and $106,000 Blood Money. Then he made the links stronger in Red Harvest, his first separately published novel By the time of his third novel, The Maltese Falcon, Hammett had a strong critical sense of what a novel was and how he wanted to fashion his. Remember that all of Hammett's novels to that time were first published serially in Black Mask. The second answer is that Hammett had been thinking about the characters and themes and literary techniques he employed in The Maltese Falcon for at least five years before he wrote the novel. He tested the climactic scene between Spade and Brigid twice before in print before he finally got it right in the novel. I should have said he was incorporating the elements of the novel into his short stories for a long time.

Rob Holden: While Sam Spade is certainly Hammett's most enduring character, he is also responsible for the creation of two other series. I would like to start first with The Thin Man series. Can you tell us a bit about where Nick and Nora Charles came from?

RICK LAYMAN: Nick and Nora are transparently based on Hammett and Hellman. He dedicated The Thin Man to her, and I think that in that novel you can find in Nora the qualities that attracted Hammett to Hellman. The novel was adapted to film skillfully, with William Powell and Myrna Loy in the starring roles, by MGM. The first movie was so successful MGM did a sequel and hired Hammett to write the screen story. Then a third, also with a story by Hammett. Then his drinking and irresponsible behavior got the best of him. It was the end of the 1930s and MGM bought the rights to the characters from Hammett and fired him. He wrote Hellman that at least he had created the smuggest set of character in literature, and "they can't take that away from me, even for $40,000." MGM went on to make 3 other Thin Man movies without Hammett.

Rob Holden: The other series Hammett created in the thirties is not as well known as Spade or The Thin Man today, but seems to have been every bit as influential at the time. Can you tell our readers a bit about The Continental Op?

RICK LAYMAN: The Continental OP was Hammett's first--and really his only--series character. He is an operative for the Continental Dectective Agency, which is closely modeled on Pinkerton's, where Hammett worked as an op for about 4 or 5 years, all tolled. The Op stories are all written in the first person and each of the stories narrates a case the Op has been assigned to. The Op is a stocky short guy--not physically modeled on Hammett. His most successful appearance is in Red Harvest, Hammett's first novel, which many believe is a masterpiece of violent hard-boiled fiction.

Rob Holden: Another aspect of Hammett's career that seems to be largely forgotten is the fact that, for a while, he worked in comic strips -- creating and writing Secret Agent X-9. Can you tell us a bit about that phase of Hammett's career?

RICK LAYMAN: After publication of The Thin Man, and with the release of the movie, Hammett was a very hot property. It was the Depression for most Americans, but for Hammett, there had never been so much money, and his philosophy was if they are giving it away, take it. He signed on as a client of Hearst's King Features Syndicate, who syndicated his short stories in newspapers across the country. And he signed on to write the continuity for Secret Agent X-9, drawn by Alex Raymond. Hammett apparently did his part, but he had a hard time taking comic strips seriously. Interestingly, the comic strip first brought Hammett to the attention of J. Edgar Hoover. When the strip first appeared, an FBI special agent in San Francisco wrote to Hoover that he had heard of the strip--which he thought was called Special Agent X-9--and was concerned that it might reflect unfavorably on the bureau. Hoover ordered Hammett investigated.

Rob Holden: In 1941 -- 11 years after it was originally published -- Warner Brothers made The Maltese Falcon starring Humphrey Bogart, and written and directed by John Huston. The movie has since gone on to be a classic -- but I am curious to know how Hammett himself felt about it.

RICK LAYMAN: Hammett rarely commented on the movie--the third made from The Maltese Falcon. The first was in 1931 and the second, Satan Met a Lady, was in 1936. He did write to his wife to say that he had seen the Bogart Falcon and "they made a pretty good picture out of it this time."

Rob Holden: The 1950's were not, I believe, terribly good for Hammett -- owing largely to his investigation by both Joseph McCarthy and the House Un-American Activities committee. Can you tell us a bit about what happened to him then, and what sort of an impact it had on his life?

RICK LAYMAN: McCarthy was in the Senate and he conducted his investigations as chairman of a Senate subcommittee. HCUA was similar in its aims, but a house committee. Hammett never appeared before HCUA, though Hellman did. He appeared before the McCarthy committee in 1953 after he got out of jail during an investigation of books by Communists in state department libraries abroad. Hammett was president of the New York Civil Rights Congress beginning in 1946. CRC was a communist organization, and the New York CRC was able to raise a lot of money. In 1948, I think it was, twelve communists were convicted of violation of the Smith Act. CRC had a bail fund, of which Hammett was the committee chairman, and they put up bail. Eleven of the communists jumped bail and Hammett was called into Federal Court to testify about contributors to the fund so investigators might track the eleven. He refused to testify and was sentenced to six months in federal prison. The impact was devastating, not so much because of the jail time, but because by then his health was beginning its final decline and most of all because IRS began investigating him. He was ultimately found to owe $140,000 in back federal income taxes--the number changed as penalties mounted. After he got out of prison, he was destitute. He lived on a very small pension, but he seemed at peace, judging from his letters. He died in January 1961.

Rob Holden: I believe that, in honor of the 75th anniversary of The Maltese Falcon, Anchor Books is re-releasing a lot of Hammett's work, as well as your own biography of Hammett, Shadow Man: The Life of Dashiell Hammett. Can you tell us about this, and your involvement in it?

RICK LAYMAN: Vintage is reissuing the novels, and I wish they would republish Shadow Man, but I'm not aware of that. We did just sell Italian rights to Shadow Man, though. I have been in contact with Vintage editors as sort of an unofficial advisor, but that's it.

Rob Holden: Before we wrap this up, I would like to know a bit about you. I believe you mentioned that you are a book publisher in your own right? Can you tell us what you publish, and for whom?

RICK LAYMAN: My company is Bruccoli Clark Layman/Manly--two related companies really. We produce reference books in literary and social history. We are an editorial company. We produce one copy of a book and form a publishing partnership with someone else who prints, promotes, and fulfills orders. Our most successful publication is The Dictionary of Literary Biography--a history of literature in all languages from antiquity, told through biographies of writers. The first volume of DLB was published in 1978; there are some 350 volumes now. Gale Group is the publisher. We also produced for Gale American Decades and American Eras, which in 18 volumes provide the fullest social history of the United States available.

Rob Holden: And is there a website where readers can get more information about these books?

RICK LAYMAN: Our website is www.bcl-manly.com.

Rob Holden: Finally, Rick -- and this might be an impossible question, but I will ask it anyway -- what one thing would you like to leave our readers with about Dashiell Hammett?

RICK LAYMAN: It is a hard question. I suppose the simple answer is that I want him to be thought of as a masterful novelist--a masterful detective novelist, to be sure--but his best work does not require qualification. I would also like to have readers look to Hammett for heroes who face the same existential-type isolation as those of Hemingway and Dreiser, and early Dos Passos--to name just three. But Sam Spade, for example, does not accept victimization. He seizes his freedom, and uses it responsibly. He isn't a whiner; he isn't a victim. I admire strength, and that's what I find attractive about Hammett's best characters. That's more than one thing. I guess you can take your pick.

Rob Holden: Rick Layman, thank you for joining us here today -- and thanks especially for your courtesy and patience in putting up with our technical difficulties in making this chat happen. All of us at ReadersRoom.com wish you all the best!

RICK LAYMAN: I have had a good time. Thanks for having me.




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